Opinions wanted
6 September 2003 18:45![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
mandragoraSo, I was 'volunteered' to be a panelist on the RPS panel at the forthcoming 'Connotations' con. I think that I was dragooned, er suggested on the basis that I should be able to remain calm and reasoned, as I argue for a living.
Well, either that, or the con organisers *looks suspiciously![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
temaris' and moonletttuce's way* wanted someone who, um, isn't shy in making her opinions known and hoped for fireworks.
*g*
Anyhow, I'm representing the 'anti' position on the panel, with someone who is into RPS (naturally) representing the converse.
I don't read RPS myself because, actors/musicians and their lives? Yawn. They bore me, frankly. But then I've never done the star-struck teenybopper thing. When my contemporaries were into boybands I was into *cough* Mr Chekov of Star Trek *cough*. So, it's not surprising that RPS holds pretty much zero attraction for me.
But so do loads of fictional people fandoms. Thank God. Otherwise I'd never sleep.
I've had some interesting conversations on the subject of RPS with those people who are into it. Some RPSers have said that popslash, for example, 'feels' different to them from actorslash, on the basis that boybands are a manufactured product etc. Which seems to suggest that some RPSers have (ethical?) problems with actorslash but not with popslash.
So, I'm asking for help from those of you who are into RPS, do you/did you have any ethical concerns when you first got into RPS and, if so, how did you 'get over'/reconcile yourself to those concerns?
An argument often put forward by anti-RPSers is that RPS could possibly cause distress to those people who are the subject of it. I gather that some individuals who are RPS subjects have stated that they don't mind it in which case, fair enough. Although this presumably doesn't take account of stories in which their nearest and dearest also feature, and sometimes in a negative light. So I understand, but as I don't read RPS I'm quite happy to be corrected if this isn't (sometimes) the case. However, I have read comments by RPSers to the effect that if they knew that any of the people featured by them in their stories objected to RPS they would take their stories down in an instant.
Which is interesting to me, because I'm pretty sure that in an analogous situation I wouldn't behave similarly. Suppose that TPTB of 'Highlander' for example went on record as saying that they disapproved of all fanfiction, especially slash as it degrades the characters and their (copyrighted) universe etc. Would I take down my (sole) Highlander story? Would I hell!
Leaving aside the copyright issue (my personal view is that I'm probably not breaking copyright by writing fanfiction iae) I wouldn't take down my story. I don't see that my fanfiction affects TPTB's ability to make money off the Highlander product in any way, so I'm not hurting them. There is a long, long tradition of building upon the creations of others for one's own enjoyment. Many myths come into that category, myths that re-date copyright by several millennia. Copyright came into existence for a good reason, to allow artists to make a living. But provided that they can still make that living once they've released their creation for the enjoyment of the public then to a certain extent they lose 'control' of that creation, on the basis that if it's sufficiently inspiring then other people are going to want to play in their sandbox. If they get their feelings hurt by that, well, 'Deal with it', say I.
Certainly many FPSers know that TPTB in their fandom have a hostile attitude towards fanfiction, but it hasn't stopped them from writing it.
And something of the same argument can be made about RPS. Boyband members know that they are going to be the subject of millions of teenage fantasies. The fact that they might also be the subject of fantasies by somewhat older women who don't want to marry-them-and-have-their-babies-when-they-grow-up (as well as some teenagers of similar mind) but would rather fantasise about them and their fellow band members in all sorts of interesting scenarios may come as something of a surprise, but is it that much different from those '[insert band member of choice] and me' fantasies out there?
And actors similarly know that they're going to be the subject of many a fantasy. Goes with the job. So long as it's not 'in their face' then what's the harm? Of course, the question then arises of what's 'in your face'. I tend to think that when it comes to real person stories, and far more so than with fictional person stories, discretion is in order.
But leaving that aside, the fact is that some arguments used against RPS can also be applied against FPS. Certainly, there are at least some blurred lines out there. For example, some who object to RPS don't have any problem with stories in which historical personages are featured, even when this includes speculation on their sex lives. And yet, there is no doubt that the concept of RPS squicks some at a very basic level in a way that FPS doesn't. Even though some 'kinks' such as mpreg, bdsm, rapefic for example, are squicks to some readers they don't seem to induce the same level of revulsion that RPS induces in some people.
As for me, the more I learn, the more I think 'shades of grey'.
So, please, comments. Help me formulate my thoughts so that I'm aware of the possible arguments out there and can do justice to them all in a reasoned way at the panel.
Well, either that, or the con organisers *looks suspiciously
temaris' and moonletttuce's way* wanted someone who, um, isn't shy in making her opinions known and hoped for fireworks.*g*
Anyhow, I'm representing the 'anti' position on the panel, with someone who is into RPS (naturally) representing the converse.
I don't read RPS myself because, actors/musicians and their lives? Yawn. They bore me, frankly. But then I've never done the star-struck teenybopper thing. When my contemporaries were into boybands I was into *cough* Mr Chekov of Star Trek *cough*. So, it's not surprising that RPS holds pretty much zero attraction for me.
But so do loads of fictional people fandoms. Thank God. Otherwise I'd never sleep.
I've had some interesting conversations on the subject of RPS with those people who are into it. Some RPSers have said that popslash, for example, 'feels' different to them from actorslash, on the basis that boybands are a manufactured product etc. Which seems to suggest that some RPSers have (ethical?) problems with actorslash but not with popslash.
So, I'm asking for help from those of you who are into RPS, do you/did you have any ethical concerns when you first got into RPS and, if so, how did you 'get over'/reconcile yourself to those concerns?
An argument often put forward by anti-RPSers is that RPS could possibly cause distress to those people who are the subject of it. I gather that some individuals who are RPS subjects have stated that they don't mind it in which case, fair enough. Although this presumably doesn't take account of stories in which their nearest and dearest also feature, and sometimes in a negative light. So I understand, but as I don't read RPS I'm quite happy to be corrected if this isn't (sometimes) the case. However, I have read comments by RPSers to the effect that if they knew that any of the people featured by them in their stories objected to RPS they would take their stories down in an instant.
Which is interesting to me, because I'm pretty sure that in an analogous situation I wouldn't behave similarly. Suppose that TPTB of 'Highlander' for example went on record as saying that they disapproved of all fanfiction, especially slash as it degrades the characters and their (copyrighted) universe etc. Would I take down my (sole) Highlander story? Would I hell!
Leaving aside the copyright issue (my personal view is that I'm probably not breaking copyright by writing fanfiction iae) I wouldn't take down my story. I don't see that my fanfiction affects TPTB's ability to make money off the Highlander product in any way, so I'm not hurting them. There is a long, long tradition of building upon the creations of others for one's own enjoyment. Many myths come into that category, myths that re-date copyright by several millennia. Copyright came into existence for a good reason, to allow artists to make a living. But provided that they can still make that living once they've released their creation for the enjoyment of the public then to a certain extent they lose 'control' of that creation, on the basis that if it's sufficiently inspiring then other people are going to want to play in their sandbox. If they get their feelings hurt by that, well, 'Deal with it', say I.
Certainly many FPSers know that TPTB in their fandom have a hostile attitude towards fanfiction, but it hasn't stopped them from writing it.
And something of the same argument can be made about RPS. Boyband members know that they are going to be the subject of millions of teenage fantasies. The fact that they might also be the subject of fantasies by somewhat older women who don't want to marry-them-and-have-their-babies-when-they-grow-up (as well as some teenagers of similar mind) but would rather fantasise about them and their fellow band members in all sorts of interesting scenarios may come as something of a surprise, but is it that much different from those '[insert band member of choice] and me' fantasies out there?
And actors similarly know that they're going to be the subject of many a fantasy. Goes with the job. So long as it's not 'in their face' then what's the harm? Of course, the question then arises of what's 'in your face'. I tend to think that when it comes to real person stories, and far more so than with fictional person stories, discretion is in order.
But leaving that aside, the fact is that some arguments used against RPS can also be applied against FPS. Certainly, there are at least some blurred lines out there. For example, some who object to RPS don't have any problem with stories in which historical personages are featured, even when this includes speculation on their sex lives. And yet, there is no doubt that the concept of RPS squicks some at a very basic level in a way that FPS doesn't. Even though some 'kinks' such as mpreg, bdsm, rapefic for example, are squicks to some readers they don't seem to induce the same level of revulsion that RPS induces in some people.
As for me, the more I learn, the more I think 'shades of grey'.
So, please, comments. Help me formulate my thoughts so that I'm aware of the possible arguments out there and can do justice to them all in a reasoned way at the panel.
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no subject
Date: 6 September 2003 17:29 (UTC)http://www.trickster.org/anyroad/kaneko/vacation.html
In addition to being funny and very, very smart, it's also short and smut-free, so it should be easy for a non-RPSer to read. And the point which is made by this story, about fame, and about the media, I don't think could have been made as sharply in any other context. That's a big part of the value of popslash for me.