Cultural dissonance

[mandragora]

Just found out from the little_details community that in the US probation officers are armed. Wow. Just, wow.

See, I know lots of probation officers in Britain. They are all social workers, are unaffiliated with the police, and absolutely none of them carry a gun. Ever. I admire probation, who do a difficult job (mostly) pretty well and they're usually nice, caring people who genuinely care about the convicted criminals who are their clients. The idea that they'd need to be armed, given that they're there to help, is just... mind-boggling.

I know the US is a completely different culture (actually, several different cultures, I think, given the vast differences in outlook across the various States) from the UK but I've spent quite a bit of time there (and love parts of the US with a passion) and then I learn something like this and it smacks me in the face with its strangeness.

I wonder if probation is armed in other countries where the police are also routinely armed. Anyone know?

Comments

[harriet-spy.livejournal.com]

in the US probation officers are armed

Not all of them. I have a close family member who is a probation officer for a juvenile court, and I don't think she's ever even touched a gun.

[mandragora1.livejournal.com]

Not all of them.

That's a relief. Sounds as if at least the juvenile probation officers -- at least in some States -- aren't armed.

It's just... The fact that even some probation officers are armed is...well, it's a real WTF moment for anyone familiar with the British criminal law system. Incredibly mind-boggling.

[kay-taylor.livejournal.com]

WTF WTF WTF. Do prosecution lawyers have machine guns or something???

It'd make pre-sentence reports quite interesting, though. "Mr Smith told me of his long-term problems with drug use and offending. I pistol-whipped the bitch until he stopped whining and told him a DTTO was most unlikely."

[mandragora1.livejournal.com]

ROFL literally. If only -- it'd really enliven the sentencing hearings.

[derryderrydown.livejournal.com]

I was equally boggled by the fact that sanitation officers are armed but probation officers? Jeeez.

[mandragora1.livejournal.com]

I know, I know. I can understand the sanitation officers a bit more -- apparently there are all sorts of nasties lurking underground in NYC, for example.

But probation officers!!!! WTF.

[zoerayne]

The idea that they'd need to be armed, given that they're there to help, is just... mind-boggling.

Um. Wow, that's an interesting perspective on a probation officer's job. In my (admittedly limited) experience in the US, they're there not so much to help as to act as surrogate prison guards in the outside world. They keep track of people on probation, make sure they have jobs and don't violate their parole, etc., and they're not particularly well liked.

[mandragora1.livejournal.com]

Ah. Different function. In Britain the probation service is there to assist offenders in rehabilitating themselves. The Chief Probation Officer wrote in an article in 'The Guardian':

The fundamental thing we mustn't lose sight of is that we have to remain compassionate and understanding, but firmly hold offenders to account, never lose sight of the victim and protect the public. That's our credo.

And, in complaining about the budget:

There's not enough to allow [offenders] to be fully rehabilitated, regain self-esteem, not go back to committing crime, living a normal life. Old habits die hard, and the public may expect us to work miracles in a very short space of time.

This was in the context of people thinking of probation as a bunch of soft, woolly-minded liberals. *g*

If people breach the terms of their probation, then probation can, and does, prosecute them for this and it may mean a custodial sentence but that's a last resort.

Also, once prisoners are released on licence -- typically having served between half and two thirds of their sentence -- then that's it, they're not kept tabs on once they're released and are left to get on with their lives. But if they re-offend again during the time of the licence (which is the remaining length of time for which they were originally sentenced) then they can be recalled to prison to serve the remainder of their sentence. Murderers are on licence for the rest of their lives and if they commit a further violent offence can be, and often are, recalled. But that's not probation's job -- their job is to assist in rehabilitation.

So, that explains why probation officers are sometimes armed in the US and why they never are in the UK -- they perform very different functions. Not quite as mind-boggling as I'd thought. Thank God.

[jacquez.livejournal.com]

That sounds like a parole officer to me, not a probation officer.

A probation officer was what my friend had to see when he had a minor drunk driving conviction (one that resulted in a fine but no jail time), and what another friend had to see when he was given probation (again, a fine, no jail time) for assault. (Tip: getting into fistfights in your dorm hallway: not a good idea.)

A parole officer is what someone has to see if they're out on parole from prison, like say a murderer who has served 8 years of a 10 year sentence or whatever.

This may vary by jurisdiction in the US, of course, as we are only loosely affiliated states. :D

[mandragora1.livejournal.com]

Okay, yes, what you describe as a probation officer sounds like the British version, as well. Hence my WTF moment...

But maybe it varies from state to state?

[zoerayne]

I bow to your superior knowledge. *g* Like I said, my experience is extremely limited--as in, I have a friend whose son has been in and out of jail for the last couple of years, and I'm going off what I've heard from her.

[moth1.livejournal.com]

But we are definitely different cultures separated by the same language after all!
Someone with more time than me could do a fic that relied on the differences in language to give a totaly different story to the two audiences . . .Centred, of course, round a probation officer.