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mandragoraHappy Birthday Gibraltar.
I'm ridiculously amused by the current hoohah surrounding the celebrations for the 300 years of British sovereignty over Gibraltar.
This morning on the Today programme there was an interview with a man whose ancestors were displaced from Gibraltar 300 years ago when the British took the Rock from the Spanish. He was bemoaning and bewailing and, really, one could have gained the impression that his life was totally ruined by this event. That happened 300 years ago. Rather before he was born, I suspect.
I can understand why the Spanish are, hmm, irritated at having this British possession stuck just off the Spanish coast by La Linea, but. If they want to persuade the Gibraltarians to change their minds and decide that they want to be Spanish rather than British throwing a temper tantrum really isn't the way to win friends and influence people. Plus, every time the Spanish have a hissy fit over Gibraltar being British I am irresistably reminded of the fact that Spain 'owns' two enclaves in Morocco which they have no intention of handing back. Hypocritical, much?
The irony is that Britain has now held sovereignty over Gibraltar for longer than Spain did, the Spanish being quick to claim it from the Moors when Arab power in the region started to fail. Britain wanted the Rock because of its immense strategic value at a time when British naval power was starting to increase. So, Britain marched in and booted the Spaniards out. That included the local civilian population who supported the military garrison. The trouble was that you couldn't run a military base in those days without a local civilian population and obviously the locals, who were unsurprisingly resentful as all hell weren't going to oblige.
So, the British hit on a Cunning Plan, and invited the Genoese (who were great travellers in those days) to come and settle on Gibraltar. Which they duly did. As a result the Gibraltarians are not of Spanish descent (although inevitably many of them have Spanish blood, their ancestors having intermingled with the Spanish over the centuries). They self identify, very proudly, as being British. The combination of Genoese and British culture has produced a curious amalgam of influences. Spanish is definitely there, of course. But they are most certainly not Spanish.
Feelings against Spain still run high. Many of them suffered greatly under Franco, when Gibraltar was cut off from Spain for 25 years. The only way out of Gib in those days was by a direct flight (which steered well clear of Spanish territory) to Britain or the ferry to Morocco. Even today there are Gibraltarians in their sixties and seventies who have never been off the Rock in their entire lives. The mind boggles.
I lived in Gib for a while. Long enough to become thoroughly annoyed at Spain's attitude to the Rock. And I love Spain, think that the Spanish people are, for the most part, warm, welcoming and hospitable with a cultural history to die for.
Nowadays Spain settles for petty harassment at the border with Spain. Petty, but extremely annoying. Waiting in the queue for 2 to 3 hours to drive across to Spain to go shopping on a Saturday is not much fun. Even with the loos thoughtfully positioned nearby in Gibraltar in anticipation of the long wait. Other annoyances include the fact that in Spain there aren't any signposts to Gibraltar until one is actually at Gibraltar. Likewise, if one posts a letter in Spain to Gibraltar it will take ages to get there because the letter is sent to the UK first and from there to Gibraltar.
Because Gibraltar doesn't exist, you see. Not in Spain, anyway.
Sigh.
As Gibraltar is no longer of prime strategic importance (although strategically significant, certainly) it would be in Spain's interests to woo Gibraltar, persuade them to become Spanish. Bullying demonstrably won't work. What a pity the Spanish don't seem to have learnt that lesson. Because in these post-colonial days the rule very firmly is that the people of the colony get to determine what they want, not what the mother country wants.
No, of course Britain wouldn't want or dream of seizing Gibraltar nowadays. But back then Spain was An Enemy and, well, the times were different. The whole bloody world was different. *g*
And what the people of Gibraltar want, overwhelmingly so, is to remain British.
I'm ridiculously amused by the current hoohah surrounding the celebrations for the 300 years of British sovereignty over Gibraltar.
This morning on the Today programme there was an interview with a man whose ancestors were displaced from Gibraltar 300 years ago when the British took the Rock from the Spanish. He was bemoaning and bewailing and, really, one could have gained the impression that his life was totally ruined by this event. That happened 300 years ago. Rather before he was born, I suspect.
I can understand why the Spanish are, hmm, irritated at having this British possession stuck just off the Spanish coast by La Linea, but. If they want to persuade the Gibraltarians to change their minds and decide that they want to be Spanish rather than British throwing a temper tantrum really isn't the way to win friends and influence people. Plus, every time the Spanish have a hissy fit over Gibraltar being British I am irresistably reminded of the fact that Spain 'owns' two enclaves in Morocco which they have no intention of handing back. Hypocritical, much?
The irony is that Britain has now held sovereignty over Gibraltar for longer than Spain did, the Spanish being quick to claim it from the Moors when Arab power in the region started to fail. Britain wanted the Rock because of its immense strategic value at a time when British naval power was starting to increase. So, Britain marched in and booted the Spaniards out. That included the local civilian population who supported the military garrison. The trouble was that you couldn't run a military base in those days without a local civilian population and obviously the locals, who were unsurprisingly resentful as all hell weren't going to oblige.
So, the British hit on a Cunning Plan, and invited the Genoese (who were great travellers in those days) to come and settle on Gibraltar. Which they duly did. As a result the Gibraltarians are not of Spanish descent (although inevitably many of them have Spanish blood, their ancestors having intermingled with the Spanish over the centuries). They self identify, very proudly, as being British. The combination of Genoese and British culture has produced a curious amalgam of influences. Spanish is definitely there, of course. But they are most certainly not Spanish.
Feelings against Spain still run high. Many of them suffered greatly under Franco, when Gibraltar was cut off from Spain for 25 years. The only way out of Gib in those days was by a direct flight (which steered well clear of Spanish territory) to Britain or the ferry to Morocco. Even today there are Gibraltarians in their sixties and seventies who have never been off the Rock in their entire lives. The mind boggles.
I lived in Gib for a while. Long enough to become thoroughly annoyed at Spain's attitude to the Rock. And I love Spain, think that the Spanish people are, for the most part, warm, welcoming and hospitable with a cultural history to die for.
Nowadays Spain settles for petty harassment at the border with Spain. Petty, but extremely annoying. Waiting in the queue for 2 to 3 hours to drive across to Spain to go shopping on a Saturday is not much fun. Even with the loos thoughtfully positioned nearby in Gibraltar in anticipation of the long wait. Other annoyances include the fact that in Spain there aren't any signposts to Gibraltar until one is actually at Gibraltar. Likewise, if one posts a letter in Spain to Gibraltar it will take ages to get there because the letter is sent to the UK first and from there to Gibraltar.
Because Gibraltar doesn't exist, you see. Not in Spain, anyway.
Sigh.
As Gibraltar is no longer of prime strategic importance (although strategically significant, certainly) it would be in Spain's interests to woo Gibraltar, persuade them to become Spanish. Bullying demonstrably won't work. What a pity the Spanish don't seem to have learnt that lesson. Because in these post-colonial days the rule very firmly is that the people of the colony get to determine what they want, not what the mother country wants.
No, of course Britain wouldn't want or dream of seizing Gibraltar nowadays. But back then Spain was An Enemy and, well, the times were different. The whole bloody world was different. *g*
And what the people of Gibraltar want, overwhelmingly so, is to remain British.
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no subject
Date: 6 August 2004 00:40 (UTC)I'm afraid that your recollection is inaccurate. What was proposed was that Gibraltar would be under joint sovereignty for 50 years before being incorporated into Spain as an autonomous region similar to the Basque Country (and of course there's the 'little' problem of a substantial proportion of that region wanting independence) and Catalonia. The proposals were rejected by the British Government, not the Gibraltarians. Although obviously the Gibraltarians were not in favour of the proposals.
The Gibraltarians do not live in Spain. They live in territory that is located just off Spain. One could say the same about Portugal, for example, and there's a clearer border between Gibraltar and Spain than Portugal and Spain. The difference is that Gibraltar is tiny, but it is, strictly speaking, a separate land mass that is linked by a land bridge.
The Gibraltarians may choose one day to become part of Spain, that's up to them. In the meantime they choose to be subject to British law rather than Spanish, as is their right. You seem to have a lack of sympathy for a people who have been beseiged and bedevilled in the past, plus a lack of empathy with their point of view.
They are not Spanish, have never been Spanish, at present do not want to be Spanish. Why should they be forced to be simply because of geographical location, which is what you're implying?
no subject
Date: 6 August 2004 02:12 (UTC)In fact what I am thinking is this:
Spain and Britain are both part of a large political entity called the EU. What you currently have with Gibraltar is a small island being administered long distance by one part of the EU, when another part of the EU is right next door. In fifty years time, this is going to look even sillier than it does right now.
One could say the same about Portugal, for example, and there's a clearer border between Gibraltar and Spain than Portugal and Spain.
Hardly, except in the simplistic terms of physical geography. (There is a small island off the coast of Edinburgh called Cramond, that's linked by a tidal causeway: you could argue that this island ought to have independence from Edinburgh because it's geographically separate from Edinburgh the majority of the time, but it's not really a terribly strong argument, is it?)
no subject
Date: 6 August 2004 02:50 (UTC)Yes, they are now both part of the EU. This is a recent development. Gibraltar has been administered by Britain for 300 years. They want to continue to be so administered.
What the Gibraltarians want is to continue to be administered by a country, which has laws, customs and procedures that are *very* much closer to theirs, being based on those of Britain, than those of Spain. And, knowing what I do about Spanish law as compared to British when it comes to the law I can hardly blame them.
What you are saying is that what they want doesn't matter. They are a small country and therefore the wishes of the larger should be paramount. Seems like you think that might is right in this case.
As for the EU, well it's not doing a lot to force Spain to allow the Gibraltarians their full rights in accordance with EU law. You know, the right to freely cross borders, free trade, respect for one another's laws. Little things like that. Spain's tactics are, purely and simply, those of the bully. If they want to persuade Gibraltar to become part of Spain they are going exactly the wrong way about it. Unless, of course, you think that the small, weak, underdog should just roll over to the bigger force.
It is up to the Gibraltarians, not the Spanish, to decide by whom they want to be administered. That is the overriding principle in these post-colonial days that is accepted by civilised people. Within which I would normally classify the Spanish. Alas, not in the case of Gibraltar.
(There is a small island off the coast of Edinburgh called Cramond, that's linked by a tidal causeway: you could argue that this island ought to have independence from Edinburgh because it's geographically separate from Edinburgh the majority of the time, but it's not really a terribly strong argument, is it?)
If the islanders wanted it, yes. Just like if the Scots want to opt out of the UK, in spite of the large (in British terms) border between Scotland and England. Or are you suggesting that Scotland shouldn't be allowed to opt for independence? After all, Scotland is a much smaller country than England population-wise. Surely therefore England's wishes should be paramount (assuming England wanted Scotland to remain within the UK, of course)? Like the Spanish in the case of Gibraltar.